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Hakeem Anwar of TakeBackOurTech.org and AbovePhone.com joins us to discuss the latest TBOT guide to Getting Started with XMPP. What is XMPP? Why is it superior to the centralized, Big Tech messaging apps? And, most important of all, why aren’t you using XMPP?
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SHOW NOTES:
Take Back Our Tech – #SolutionsWatch
https://takebackourtech.org/xmpp – Get the XMPP Getting Started Guide
https://abovephone.com – Privacy tech from Above Agency
https://learn.abovephone.com – Learn about more freedom technology (free webinars)
Too bad I have no will to talk to people, otherwise I’d be all over this. Great presentation.
Thanks! It is tough building relationships but its worth it when you need them. As they say, Dig your well before you’re thirsty.
I learned long ago…once you’re on the INTERNET – you’re exposed…the only solution…two coffee cans and a long string!
99% of people don’t have any idea because they aren’t “anyone (who) can develop XMPP software on any platform” and don’t “run their own server” and whose friends would be baffled if we “download this and send it” to them.
If there are tech groups who want to teach dummies, I haven’t seen them, in fact, techies are notorious for being arrogant and condescending and generally unable to communicate clearly to “normal people.”
Yeah, that took 2 minutes but what just happened.
Which is why so many who productively use monopolized and intrusive tech (and hate it) but don’t want to look under the hood are left in the dark. We use tech like we drive a car, if it goes when we press the key fob, great, if it doesn’t, we need a mechanic to explain and fix.
In my heyday, I helped implement the transition of my corner of an industry from mechanical to desktop. That was then. Now, a friendly interface is essential.
I understand most people aren’t technical users, and I like your analogy of using tech like you use a car.
In the video, we signed up for an XMPP server, just like you sign up for an XMPP account. How do you think it could have been explained better?
I wish I had more time to go through it slowly, but that’s also why I created the guide which explains everything and lets you go through the process at your own pace. I am trying to teach those new to tech so any feedback is appreciated, especially on the guide: https://takebackourtech.org/xmpp
“I am trying to teach those new to tech so any feedback is appreciated, especially on the guide:”
“Download the guide by joining our mailing list.”
This is almost meme worthy.
tons of free content on takebackourtech.org that requires no email, even the form gives you the guide as soon as you submit it, it doesn’t send it by email or verify.
It’s a pity that the elephant in the room isn’t mentioned: client side scanning using AI. The provided XMPP solution is not safeguarding you from Big Tech data collection and it is not safe with regards to end-to-end encryption. A single compromised* device within your network is all it needs. And it is impossible to know if one of your (normie) friends is using such a device.
See Braxman’s video: End-to-End Encryption Now a Historical Footnote. They Won.
*like an Iphone >= 16
100%
Thanks, I’m still amazed that people don’t understand that comfort and safety just don’t go hand in hand. Safe: user unfriendly. Unsafe: we’ve even got an iOS app for that, just takes 5 minutes to install…
I disagree entirely.
All digital infrastructure can be exploited by big tech. They have hardware and tools we do not.
In person speaking is “safe” from exploitation and user friendly. Pen and paper is “safe” from exploitation and user friendly.
All devices on a network are inherently exploitable.
Thank you James and Hakeem. This was inspiring. I am like kryptonite to tech – I make things go wrong. Yet I truly am planning to give this a go – I’ll get my husband to set us up once I’ve persuaded him to watch the episode. We would probably only communicate with each other – but it’s an important connection! It’s so worth exploring these types of solutions. There are always going to be those who can pick holes because cynical perfectionism is an attractive pitfall of embracing being a “truther”, but for my money it is probably worth taking your chances with the tech that is at least trying to make a good change, rather than to see potential problems and stick with the evil overlords as a default. That’s how they game you.
Thank you again.
awesome! so glad you are doing that. once you get logged in also do join our public group at:
tbot@group.chat.above.im
Yeah lots of cynics in the comments complaining about the internet … on the internet 🤣
There’s a lot of misunderstanding and fear-mongering with the AI chips topic and I think Braxman did everyone a disservice while peddling for clicks. Simply having an AI enabled chip doesn’t automatically mean everything on the device is being analyzed. That’s a massive assumption with no proof.
There also needs to be software on the phone that does AI scanning. There’s greater risk with proprietary operating systems, and next to none with a de-googled device. That’s my recommendation, and that’s also Braxmans.
Impossible to know your friends are using a big tech device? Really? Just ask them.
People are too willing to assume aspects of control and surveillance without objective evidence.
You heard it here first folks, the internet is Safe and Effective!
There is an important distinction between “claiming ownership” and “Declaring ignorance”.
Solutions are not to be found through positive thinking exercises.
If you’re on a network and exchanging data(meta or otherwise), that’s all they care about.
yup, and laws being passed to ban VPNs, private cryptocurrencies, and to backdoor end to end encryption are only being passed because none of those things worked anyways.
(oh wait – they do)
There’s an even bigger elephant standing behind that one:
It’s a near-certainty that one of the chips in your “smartphone” has a backdoor (al la Intel’s IME and AMD’s PSP/AST) that permits the cabal to see your screen just as you see it (and access the cameras, mic, storage, GPS & sensors).
“Smartphones” are surveillance bugs.
That’s their entire purpose.
That’s why they were created.
That’s why the advanced microtech needed to create them was permitted to be trickled into the public realm.
That’s why they eliminated the ability to easily remove the battery.
Rather than continuously trying & failing to implant bugs under everyone’s skin, they simply devised a bug that everyone would willingly (even enthusiastically) carry with them everywhere.
that’s plausible but there’s no evidence of how what the backdoor exposes to an attacker, and if they can deploy that at a mass scale.
my take is that it takes specialized resources to target a phone like that, resources that won’t be spent on your average joe.
If these backdoors were really so pervasive and are being used all the time (again – there’s no proof of them ever being used – please link me if you have something) – there would be indications of it.
people addressing the 80% of tracking that happens through consent is enough to protect them from the threats that are relevant to everyday people.
And even special users / darknetmarket operators/ enemies of the state are able to operate unimpeded despite “backdoors”
Take back OUR tech… Who manufactured it? Who owns the networks? Who runs the ISP’s
I’m good thanks.
Anything that networks humanity digitally at this moment is not a force for good.
Network monitoring and manipulation is a thing.
People can be so silly.
The military and government were indeed the first to pioneer the internet, but humanity brought everything else of value to it – the content of the internet.
You can either treat it like a weapon being pointed at you, or claim ownership of it.
“Anything that networks humanity digitally at this moment is not a force for good.” – the exact statement I was searching for 🙂
An advantage of self-hostable tools like XMPP is that you can make use of it on off-grid networks, providing communication without having to worry about network monitoring and manipulation.
Naturally that’s quite far for many people, but there are many reasons to consider the benefits of XMPP over alternatives.
I wholeheartedly agree with you that building up independent infrastructure and (verifiable) manufacturing capabilities would be a significant game-changer.
You’d likely just want to use a LAN messenger for that since it’s very simple and works without a dedicated server, but, with that said, a dedicated server is nice for storing/managing communications/files sent while the user was offline.
Why is Broze so heavily associated with the upright triangle?…and this latest film clip with 33… did I miss something? are we playing games are we?
…and while I’m at it, why is C.A. Fitts doing interviews with Tucker Carlson???
I’ve always been sus’ on Fitts ever since she spoke about Gov employees being captured and thinking at the time “that applies to you too Fitts”. It was the way she said it too, it came across very much as an admission.
I think it was a Webb video from 18 months back. I will try find it.
Didn’t you hear? The illuminati has a patent on basic shapes and no one else is allowed to claim their power – if they do, they’re a scary boogeyman. Stick to squares, circles – that kind of stuff.
You’re so right Hakeem, I’m going to wear my inverted pentagram t-shirt to church next Sunday.
Time to get my Swastika insignia’d jacket back out of the cupboard and into circulation.
For all your intelligence Hakeem, you’re a very basic human.
I’ve met a few network “Engineers” in my recent days and all fall short of being able to adequately portray the threat offered by Agent Based Modelling. Tell me Hakeem, is this the part of the conversation where you go to your preferred search engine and type in “Agent Based Modelling”, or are you actually up to speed on your trade?
Or are you just a software Engineer entirely oblivious to the tools?
“….I’m going to wear my inverted pentagram t-shirt to church next Sunday….”
I would believe you would do that , except I don’t think you set foot on Holy Ground very often.
😉 lolol
who am i to judge if symbols scare you from living your life. do you.
* You said the wrong XMPPID (or should we say JID?), it should be solutionswatch@chatterboxtown.us.
* It is great that you campaign for XMPP! Though I find it hard to win friends over to XMPP. I have my XMPPID on my homepage, but never anybody messaged me. How can XMPP become widespread?
* It will take most people much more time than 10 minutes to get started with XMPP. You need to speak much more slowly if you want to reach them. They need to understand the basic structure first.
thanks for the correction… oops.
join us on our group chat tbot@group.chat.above.im
i feel that over time people will be pushed off of these platforms as those platforms continue to abuse their users
yeah i agree. i will on speaking slower. thanks for the feedback
Great episode, I enjoy to see more Solutions Watch in this space of independent/de-centralised software alternatives.
Still waiting to find the safe phones that don’t need to be on a Google Device itself which appears to still be a work in progress.
Developing installing some XMPP clients on my Linux build and testing them out, great resources shared, thanks!
thanks mate. hope to have solutions for you soon
T
You could try the Pine phone…. Plenty of people like it though it’s not so slick as a big tech phone last I heard it was OK for regular users if they don’t demand too much.
https://pine64.org/devices/pinephone/
Looks like it’s about 200 bucks now.
Personally I don’t put any apps on my phone because I would tend to abuse them and waste time as well as not really trusting privacy on one more then I would talking in a bar
Thanks Duck – Yes, I’m investigating PinePhone 64 which looks like a better Hardware and continued support communities. Getting out of the Google Android / Apple sphere to me is the key issue and we need more devs and tech bros driving to this objective. Already rumblings of Android completely redoing their entire OS base to build in AI framework functionality, our time is running thin
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_open-source_mobile_phones
For others looking into the Open Source Phone options, some more worth investigating and lots of great OS to consider as well
Amazing episode. Already setting up servers.
I was using XMPP with Pidgin and the OTR encryption plugin.
It took some work but I eventually got several family members to use.
Then the server went down.
I had to dig for a new server that was unlikely to go down and persuade these convenience-addicted family members to enter the new server info into Pidgin.
They eventually did so.
Then that server went down.
This happened two more times then they were done playing my cute little fight-the-power, cloak & dagger communication game.
Side story:
The last reliable XMPP server I tried was provided by DuckDuckGo back when they were still putting a strong effort into passing themselves off as the privacy-loving good guys. It was immediately blocked by my Amazon IP blocker because they were literally just using an Amazon server for their ‘privacy-protecting’ XMPP server. That served as confirmation of what I already suspected: they were frauds (controlled opposition/alternative).
that sounds like a bit of struggle. freedom and decentralization can be hard sometimes. i would use the servers that have been established the longest at list.jabber.at
and yeah, doesn’t surprise me about DuckDuckGo.
I like XMPP as a protocol, but I don’t see it being a replacement for “texting” (iMessage and Google Messages) for most people. I’ve successfully gotten 3 “boomer” family members using Signal, and its just easy for them cause it works just like texting. I know Signal has its flaws, and maybe a CIA or NSA backdoor, but the main reason I don’t use XMPP is because nobody I know and talk to regularly uses it, and trying to get them to do so doesn’t seem to be a battle worth fighting.
https://www.privacyguides.org/en/real-time-communication/ doesn’t list XMPP, although they did in the past. They removed it because a lot of XMPP clients don’t support end to end encryption. Interestingly, they still list Matrix which I think has many of the advantages of XMPP with some additional disadvantages, and neither is perfect. Maybe what we really need is a way to get people to sign up for and start using XMPP (or Matrix, why not both?) from a web site without really having to know they’re even using XMPP or Matrix.
Speaking about the elephant in the room…
I’m still amused and perplexed at Shaun sitting there in the background.
I can’t give my full attention to the interview because I’m forced to stare at Shaun. It’s impossible to ignore the ‘elephant in the room’. 🙂
And unless Shaun is super-human, he can’t give his full attention to whatever work he’s doing. He’ll be listening, to some extent, to the interview being done by James…
I don’t for the most part use messaging services, not because they are run by the Tech Giants or because they are proprietary, but for the same reason I hardly use my cell phone.
It’s too invasive of my TIME.
And I don’t want to be on some ‘electronic dog leash’.
So I wouldn’t use XMPP for the same reason.
But just out of curiosity, is Hakeem saying that if you send messages with XMPP
Big Tech won’t be able to snoop on them the way they can with all the popular messaging systems out today? (Some have already piped in saying Big Tech would still be able to snoop on them).
And wouldn’t the people running the XMPP servers potentially be able to snoop on your messages?
Speaking about associating a phone number to your account. That’s one of my biggest pet peeves with not only messaging services but pretty much any internet/communication service.
Why is it so DAMNED IMPORTANT to link my phone number to a service?
“Why is it so DAMNED IMPORTANT to link my phone number to a service?”
Because your phone number is strongly linked to your real-world identity.
It’s a interim/training step in the global agenda to end Internet anonymity.
They’ll tell you it’s to protect your account.
That’s called a lie.
Personally, I sign up for nothing that requires a phone number, and every time a service starts to require a phone number, I dump the service.
As a result, after many years of paying my bills online, I’m back to paying them via snail mail.
Blabber ahead:
You’ll notice that they’ve been cutting deals with prepaid phone services to get them to replace their cheap flip phones (‘burner phones’) with expensive smartphones to reduce the probability of someone having a phone number that isn’t strongly linked to their real-world identity.
You’ll also notice that websites are now starting to use some kind of service that allows them to identify probable temporary phone numbers an unconventional numbers like Google Voice numbers. All part of the same agenda.
And it appears they’ve successfully raised a generation of web developers who believe that a username + password login system is insecure and dangerous. Same generation of devs that believed it was deadly to leave their house without all five boosters.
“Because your phone number is strongly linked to your real-world identity.”
Yeah that was a rhetorical question.
Right, if you inquire about it you inevitably will be told it’s for our ‘security’.
There will come a time in the not-too-distant future when Digital ID
will be required to sign up for/into everything.
There will no longer be a need to provide your phone number.
At that point in time your phone number will be redundant.
I believe the primary technical purpose of linking to a phone number is to cut down the bots count. That does not do anything to hinder the platform operated bots, of course.
Technically, it is possible to have such a service where all data is encrypted so that it becomes impossible (sans backdoors, quantum computing etc.) to snoop in on the conversation. This is known as end to end encryption.
I don’t know what’s the current status of XMPP in this regard. I see there are proposals to this effect dated three years ago.
h2ttps://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0384.html
When it comes to various services without E2EE, the big question is what happens when someone from ABC agencies knocks on their door. We had some examples in the past where people shut down the service (supposedly) rather than giving in and hand over user data.
I would say the only way something like this can be done in a reliable fashion is via distributed networks and, more importantly, distributed databases. That way, the service would be far less likely to go down, and everyone would be able to gain access to the data, but it would be encrypted, hopefully with some reliable solution. There would likely exist a performance penalty.
Funny, I was about to comment that I no longer notice him. Have you been tested for ADHD?
Have you been tested for SCD?
XMPP crashes and burns right here:
Not recommended for Windows desktops or iOS phones.
There are many applications supporting the protocol and even if none of them worked for you, that’s completely irrelevant for other people who may be using it.
I invested 20 minutes on XMPP and created an account and installed clients.
I invited one of my geeky friends, but he declined to join.
Well, I was excited with the concept and started, but I can’t see what to use it for…
It’s likely easier to find new friends who already use XMPP than to convert existing friends to it 🙂
Mkey,
That would apply to 90% of the wakey wakey new world order. Cut old ones loose, get new ones that are agreeable. Great reset.
The great reset also needs a reset of trust.
After reading a few dozen responses here, please allow me to comment from a different angle.
At some point the puppet masters won’t need existing or near-future communication surveillance technology based on what we have now. Wait until they offer* you the chip implant… THEN your decision will weigh much more than any of this. Your being able to buy and sell in any environment other than the black-market is the hammer that comes from behind and resistance is futile**, as the Borg would say. That is what we should be working to resolve. The control of who can buy and sell and what they can buy and sell is a well known goal for any would-be dictator(s). A powerful smart chip inside your body could be all that is needed to OWN you, until you remove it at your own peril.
All of this (privacy-related), much like all of the other threat exploitation (climate, terror, virus, etc.), are distractions (not all of them should be ignored). Their purpose is that you will want or need solutions and protection from them. They keep attacking, we keep looking for solutions, much like any war. The multi-headed dragon that wants your soul will keep sending them until it has the final “hammer” ready and the time is right.
I believe most efforts, such as utilizing and expanding on things like XMTP, are well intended and certainly need discussion and debate. However, with AI, quantum and nano-tech surging forward at break-neck speed… necks are likely to be broken. I’d prefer to not focus as much on ALL threats you can see as “clear and present” but those threats should be sorted and prioritized so as not to spread the freedom fighters too thin.
It seems to be already too much time spent on these discussions, though I’m glad I saw this one. Most everyone is HOOKED on tech and forgotten how to live without, very sad. Could be something of a “great reset” on the horizon and it could be acceptable (compared to what is coming) to the anarchists and preppers. For many it will be nothing less than “eye opening” and scary as hell. I have not lost all hope, just yet.
* Offered at first, forced via various leverage devices, later.
** From the Star Trek series: “WE ARE THE BORG. YOU WILL BE ASSIMILATED. YOUR UNIQUENESS WILL BE ADDED TO OUR COLLECTIVE. RESISTANCE IS FUTILE” (this does sound similar to what is happening, I think). I bet James has used this before, somewhere.
Just use SimpleX to message, uncomplicated, fully encrypted, no user-id, no account no phone number no e-mail. Simple and beautiful.
On another note, I don’t get how people fall for those overpriced privacyphones when all they do is use grapheneOs, just use it for free…
I think the issue with Graphene phones (and other phone OS’s0 is that very few people are going to drop a wad of cash on a phone and then risk bricking it thru not knowing how to install a new OS…..most people wont even install Linux on an old PC.
Also IIRC Graphene is made for google Pixels, which means that however good it is your still dealing with whatever hardware ‘features’ google has installed. I’m sure its secure enough for most peoples threat model but I think people are either way toooooo relaxed or way toooo paranoid.
People want to BUY a perfect device,without having to learn anything, but no such phone exists and if it did can you trust the company that sells it pre-packaged? Personally I think smartphones in general are a bad idea, even if i do often use one and have an ‘always airplane mode’ one for MP3 players, but people have always wished to have their cake and eat it
I wouldn’t say “uncomplicated”. It would still take a steeper learning curve than the normie’s whatsapp or telegram or even xmpp. But I thoroughly support the technology. Definitely a leap forward towards decentralisation compared to xmpp.
I personally use simplex with my privacy-conscious techie friends and xmpp with the less techie ones.
And a burner phone with a disposable phone number for the inevitable whatsapp or telegram (in some circumstances, it is virtually impossible to make it without)
True that, i also have a disposable number for telegram 😉
SimpleX looks simple enough. If you keep scrolling past the. com to the. chat site 🙂
Searching for “Corbett” did not yield any groups so I took the liberty to create one.
https://simplex.chat/contact#/?v=2-7&smp=smp%3A%2F%2FPtsqghzQKU83kYTlQ1VKg996dW4Cw4x_bvpKmiv8uns%3D%40smp18.simplex.im%2FSxayTowgvTNA9gr8jfm30XzHxhk3PiGh%23%2F%3Fv%3D1-4%26dh%3DMCowBQYDK2VuAyEA8v1hI21Qo1ppMh9FMRTKzfwTe5i-xR6yaXIj4BeafTE%253D%26q%3Dc%26srv%3Dlyqpnwbs2zqfr45jqkncwpywpbtq7jrhxnib5qddtr6npjyezuwd3nqd.onion&data=%7B%22groupLinkId%22%3A%22nkOF7ikd1ZK9A4H06JC6pw%3D%3D%22%7D
That’s a good idea! I joined!
Now one can search for “Corbett” in groups and you will find the group.
I also created this shorter URL:
https://tinyurl.com/UnofficialCorbettReport
On separate topic of Shaun, if it hasn’t been suggested yet before, since his back is always turned to James during the videos. Can we kindly request that a Reverse Facemask be put on the back of Shaun’s head as to give the appearance of another presenter in the room?
This Mask can change on basis of necessity to the theme of the video and the nature of the dialogue (i.e. sleepy Homer Simpson face for long winded James legalize discussions)
Is this more of an Open Topic discussion…perhaps…or not!
This should be easily doable with “AI”. Shaun’s head could be converted to any of the well known talking heads, as the topic at hand required.
A mask would be both hilarious and creepy at the same time. Lol
So, I’m trying to do it now.
I can’t seem to test the server.
I downloaded Beagle but it asked me for my server info which I didn’t have because I downloaded beagle first.
Now I’ve given up….
That’s 10 minutes…
I appreciate what you do but it’s too complicated.
I was game to give it a try. Shame it couldn’t be more user friendly.
I couldn’t get a server sorted. Tried on a mobile but that didn’t work either…
XMPP : Messaging == MyCHIPs : Money
Learn about the open protocol: https://mychips.org