I’ve just read a deeply fascinating and provocative book that affirms something I’ve been trying to articulate for three decades! So, join me today as I explore David Crystal’s The Fight For English and discover what the glorious anarchy of language has to teach us about the beautiful spontaneous order that defines our daily existence.
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SHOW NOTES:
The Fight For English by David Crystal
Daniel Defoe’s “On Academies”
David Crystal Lecture – Cambridge University Press
Quote Origin: “This Is the Sort of Nonsense Up With Which I Will Not Put”
Eats, Shoots & Leaves: The Zero Tolerance Approach to Punctuation
Order without intent: How spontaneous order built our world.
Michael Malice: Anarchy, Democracy, Libertarianism, Love, and Trolling | Lex Fridman Podcast #128
So here’s a question from the opposite perspective: how much are you ignoring the true lesson of the tower of Babel? The true lesson of the tower of Babel is not to worship some boogity-boo guy in the sky, it’s that in order to divide people, you fracture the language.
Also, (as you point out) a lot of the supposed grammar rules (including not ending a sentence with a preposition) were proposed by self-ascribed pedants. They were immediately dismissed because of the already-existing history of the written word.
Once again I’m going to point out this ridiculous and hypocritical idea of “anarchy doesn’t means no rules, it means no rulers”. It is (at best) blind to the cannot-not axioms of society. For someone to say that anarchy means rules without rulers, then it either means that the collective people who decide what the rules cannot be called or referred to as anything. It is a paradox.
But I view the fake definition of anarchy as a subconscious implementation of the line that Tears for Fears song: “Everybody Wants to Rule the World”. When people give that BS definition of anarchy, I see it as a denial to the nuances and grey of existence as a means to put ones own thumb on the art of language. In other words, I see this definition as an exercise no different than that of the grammar nazis.
Shakespeare wrote that brevity is the soul of wit, but that is only true if one’s ideas are accurately and completely conveyed. Less said leaves more imagined, and someone can give you the idea that they have accurately understood the idea you were conveyed, but how do you know if they haven’t?
So that brings the question: what’s important?
Do we need a system? Well, how much time do you want to spend with each new person developping a language with them, and how much do you want to have to remember for different people?
Can we have a system that comes from a single point? How far is that going to reach and reach accurately? Do you know what an eggcorn is?
Personally, what I think causes the most problems in language is when a singular word is meant to encapsulate these grand and convoluted things as part of its definition when, in reality, they are little more than personally ascribed connotations.
And I will say that I find value in the recognition of keeping parts of etymological history in our words, because it reveals those people who will ask, “Hey, why is that there?”
I would argue that the points of the Tower of Babel are
A) when people come together under a single ruler they are immensely powerful and can do lot of things (just as termites can build massive nests)
B) the things people tend to do are not good and this they were divided Into smaller groups.
Vientacus Prime and Duck,
You both are at opposites over human nature.
The post war play 1959 absurdist play by Eugène Ionesco about a small town where citizens inexplicably transform into rhinoceroses, symbolizing the mass conformity and rise of fascism, with the protagonist, Bérenger, as the last man resisting the “rhino-mania”.
The recent book ” Powerless” might as well of been a Fascist as well as Communist manifesto. My complications of Anarchism and Volenteerist ideologies are the willfully underestimated human condition of herding. Herding into herds regardless of the language which is about as close to spontaneous order as you can get. Not absolute however limited to food and water. If only that was the complete constitution of MAN. Well it isn’t. What ifs outweigh the man and his ideologies. Intelligence will go only so far then the breaking of the rules of matter will be needed ( as I envisioned below) and require metaphysical introduction to reorder reality, to reorder the available politic of man… The rebuilding of the tower to hold all of mans failures of record. A complete reversal of mens ego, what not to do. As opposed to what to do next. Is it already here? You tell me if it’s possible without devine intervention.
GBW
On divine intervention I’d note that in ten story God says that He will scatter the people because if they unite they will be able to do anything they choose……considering the things people have been choosing to do in the modern world I’d say limiting their power is a
Mercy and a kindness.
I mean…..fking Crispr babies and Terminator seeds and electo brain stimulation and the rest….?
Humans with power = monkey with a chainsaw
People always want to reorder reality (the sick Jewish doctrine of healing the world being the apotheosis of the idea) and we really are not suited to wield that kind of power
The only true difference between a poor and powerless person and a person with much wealth and power is the reach of the stupidity they can inflict upon others.
“….is the reach of the stupidity they can inflict upon others…..”
That is very true
Back in the old days the weirdo who wanted to live out a creepy ideal was just a kook, after TV he could reach out and program your wife n kids and it’s so much worse now
I think the most interesting thing about Boomers as a generation is that they were the first people who could be reprogrammed in real time by media….a lot of the younger generation folks look to me kinda like those VCR tapes that got recorded over too many time.
V.P.
Ted Turner was a perfect example. What he did to the fourth leg of the stool of government stability wreaked the American Investigative Journalist Branch of government. It was weak to begin with but functioned all over the land. His stupidity turned News as information into News as doctrine. He, ironically Ted was a turner. Destroyed the PRESS.
p.s.is their an English word for just such an occurrence. An occasion when a noun becomes a verb.? Not so much as Ted being a turner but … We had one in Oklahoma a while back. Pielsticker was his name. Colloquially, we use it when someone does harm out of stupidity caused by wealth. We say ” He’s a real pillsticker”
Northern District of Oklahoma | Former Arrow Trucking Executive Sentenced in Multi-Million Dollar Fraud Scheme | United States Department of Justice https://share.google/0NnLNEzUbXW7ULmLE
P.p.s. V.P.
As far as brevity, Shakespear never meet a Texican.
And what is this about God needing a starship?
The question is because you mention divine intervention, although, I think that in my half-awake state I may have misinterpreted the purpose of the mention.
What does god need with a starship?
Just went on the f-droid (open source android app store) website and discovered this story:
https://keepandroidopen.org/en/
Looks like Google is about to rug pull all Android users who opted for this platform instead of choosing Apple and to prevent any other app than those “officially approved” by and paying ransom money to Google……. here we go
To be honest putting ANY app on a cell phone is kinda stupid.
Using anything except maybe a browser (yeah, I know that’s also stupid) is opening yourself up to even more spyware. Using our main means of calling people as an everything device (even if it wasn’t skunked in the hardware like it is) is just making ourselves open to being spies on
I hate cell phones. I don’t carry mine with me. When people ask, I tell them I live a post-cell-phone lifestyle.
Yes, it’s a good thing that language evolves, but the meaning of words can be twisted and weaponised as they were during the Covid scamdemic.
I enjoyed Truss’s book Eats, Shoots and Leaves and am sorry that you diss it James.
Judging by the comment sections on many podcasts and interviews, I do get annoyed by many commentators’ inability to spell common words.
Listening to a really fluent and articulate speech that is not littered with “kind of” or “sort of” is welcome.
I never read the book, but I remember the joke. “Why is that Rock and Roll drummer like a panda? He also eats, roots, shoots, and leaves.
I found this episode unexpectedly thought-provoking, yet I still have a minor contrarian anecdote to add. I swear that I remember James, himself, complaining about someone’s admittedly ignorant comment, that featured the period on the wrong side of a parentheses. So, I think that he has sympathy for both sides; but in order to produce a show with a clear point, he has to stress one side.
At home we speak 65% Italian, 35% English. Our three children understand both languages perfectly, and they mostly speak Italian which is their mother’s tongue. I will say this: as a native English speaker, I never felt so good and so free until I learned to express myself freely in a second language. Looking back, even with a fine command of the English language, it’s quite restrictive to have English and only English at one’s disposal for communication.
I noted with interest the fact that David Crystal is also a speaker of Welsh, the original and oldest language of Britain, still spoken by around half a million of us here in Wales. Whereas English (more accurately named as Franco-Saxon) was established in the 16th century with the printing of the Holy Bible aided by William Shakespeare’ plays, Welsh continues to develop organically in the mountains and valleys of Wales. The result is that regional variations in Welsh continue to evolve, despite the BBC’s attempts to standardise it. We can pinpoint where a Welsh speaker comes from within a 30 mile radius simply by the way they speak and the words they use. Even the word order we use in constructing sentences can vary . I suspect this regional variation in the Welsh language informed David Crystal’s analysis of English and languages in general. Perhaps it gave him a more relaxed approach to variation in grammar.
— Welsh —
That is very, very interesting Kumro!
Thanks for that insight.
You must be a Corbett Commentor.
“Commenter” is the standard and preferred spelling for a person who leaves a comment.
“Commentor” is sometimes used as a variant, but it is less common or considered non-standard.
I read Eats, Shoots and Leaves years ago, and I loved it! I don’t remember all the details, but I thought the book made the same point as this video about how the English language changes and evolves.
I don’t remember it being patronising – maybe I missed that? It was hilarious. Maybe David Crystal missed the humour. Was the author laughing at people who made grammatical errors? I don’t remember thinking that, but maybe?
What did stand out for me about Truss’s book was the fascinating history she presented of how english grammar developed – as stage commands for actors.
I’m not a pedant. I’m a human who makes all kinds of mistakes. But I did work as a copy editor for years, and those grammatical habits that were my actual bread and butter for decades are hard to shake.
Does this mean I jump to criticise people on their spelling and grammar? No. It means I’m forever biting my tongue and trying to ignore mistakes, and that I (and my ex-copy editor friends) need group therapy to overcome this perfectionism affliction.
I do wonder if this is more about perceived “micro aggressions”. Actual grammar nazis died out years ago, along with the oddballs who used to mock people for using the “wrong” knife and fork at dinner. If someone shows you the design for a leaflet they’re going to have printed at great cost, and there’s a spelling mistake in the title – would you point it out? I wouldn’t dare!
I’ve always seen grammar as a tool that helps me read things more quickly. In the bad old days grammar was used to put people down, especially if English wasn’t their first language, or they were from a perceived lower class. Maybe that’s why people are so sensitive about grammar these days, and see any mention of it as a kind of micro aggression.
Yes, all good stuff.
What concerns me is the dumbing down of language. In particular:
(a) the shrinking vocabulary known and employed in both spoken and written word;
(b) the dumbing down of particular words/phrases – for example, I often hear people using the phrase ‘alluded to’ to simply mean ‘directly referred to’ rather than the meaning I learnt which is ‘referred to indirectly’.
This means that the ways we can describe the world and our interactions with it are constantly reducing.
I can add to this dumbing down that’s occurring, the meaningless words and phrases that are increasingly used in people’s spoken discourse, such things as ‘you know’, ‘I mean’, and ‘like’.
The classical arts of the Trivium (Grammar, Logic, & Rhetoric) are important and, in my view, not only need to be understood but also employed and respected. This is the story Mark Passio tells in his 2013 seminar on Natural Law:
“I tell people a little anecdote. When I was in high school, they really hammered Latin and Greek into you. I came out of there better because of simply the linguistics knowledge that I gained from it. We read Julius Caesar’s war journals in their original Latin and translated them, and in one of them he’s telling how he lambasted one of his centurions. They’re on a campaign in Gaul and Caesar is making his rounds with his troops and getting ready to push deeper into Gaul. They would have a lot of slaves with them on their campaign who would do the lifting and carrying of the equipment that the centurions would use in battle. Caesar is walking through the encampment one night and sees one of the centurion leaders teaching the Trivium method to a slave, and he flips out on him. In this journal, he says, “I caught one of my centurions teaching the Trivium” and says to him, “how dare you teach a slave our method of learning, soon they won’t want to be a slave anymore. There would be an uprising if they knew our truth discovery methodology.” He told this centurion, “if I ever catch you doing this again, I will personally cast you into the wilderness of Gaul and let the Gauls deal with you,” where no doubt he would have been tortured and killed. That’s how much the Romans didn’t want their slaves to understand their methodology for learning, which is the Trivium. And that’s why most people have never heard the word. So, you’ve got to look into it and understand how it works. It’s how we build our reality, either efficiently or destructively.”
Daniel
I don’t know that language has actually been dumbed down as much as we just pay attention to badly educated and stupid people more these days. Now they can actually pretend that their of a higher social class and this kills the lower class drive to raise themselves thru education
We always had dumb about, but people always saw them for what they were , a waste of time, while people like (say) Malcolm X who were motivated enough to attain higher skills were seen as worth attention….compare him with some hysterical BLM woman with a slogan.
CS Lewis wrote an essay on education where he laid out the situation we have today where forced over education creates a situation where people who are actually interested in the subject are no longer seen as useful (but nerdy and not to be wholly trusted) and instead people who are either not interested or are actually stupid get a sense that they are qualified to hold options on things they know little to nothing about…..these folks tend to try to level everything down to somewhere where they can actually understand…..while at the same time making rule by credentialed “experts” beyond questioning
Those folks become the credentialists who think a degree makes you smart (I know plenty of dumb fkers with degrees) or they get hostile to anyone who might actually know more then they do…or I guess they can even do both. Language used to be the big marker for social class too, which now we have to pretend that everyone is equal makes it touchy.
There is no way that any serious person gives much credence to someone who can’t string clear ideas together in their speech……Mr Corbetts skits playing ‘Johnny YouTuber’ being a good parody of how serious people really think about someone like that.
I loved reading Eats, Shoots and Leaves. It was funny and I hoped to learn something about writing.
I value clarity and must admit when I talk to my partner, Jeff, it often feels as if we speak a different language. I dont have as much trouble being understood when I talk to women. Loved Deborah Tannens books about how the men, women and regions use different words to communicate.
The British are wicked snobs about language and pronunciation. I listened to a clip of Bertrand Russell recently and gagged.
J
Is being a snob bad if it encourages people to improve?
I knew a lot of English guys and plenty of older guys born in the working class spent time improving their education in order to be seen as higher class. It’s also kinda nice to have regional accents that mark you as being from a place to others there.
Americans pretend that accents don’t mark class, but I suspect that there is a reason evil and stupid characters on TV shows often start speaking in bad southern accents reflects a bias by the Coastal types making those shows……i still recall that episode thn Simpsons where Lisa thought she was gonna get stupider as she aged (medical reasons iirc) and was taking with a thick Southern accent lolol.
Duck,
I’m American, and your observation that there is negative bias toward Southern accents is mostly true.
They lost the Civil War, and have never gotten over it.
Also, the Southern states (“The Bible Belt”) was under an apartheid system up through the 1960s, and they’re trying really hard, right now, to bring it back.
Generally, though, one-on-one, Southerners are extremely kind, polite people. They’re usually warm and friendly.
But yeah, racism still exists. Sometimes people are openly racist in public.
So, the rest of the country just lumps them all together into this stereotype of the big, dumb, ugly, ignorant, racist hillbilly redneck.
That guy does exist, and stomps through the muddy fields of Alabama. But he’s not everyone.
Bird
I think the bias is more from the media types than regular folks (unless they watch too much TV, lol) and I’ve never really seen any IRL northern being weird about irl southern people.
Got to admit that many Texans think a kitten dies every time a Californian moves here though……hahaha
I’ve heard other folks talking about the N vs S issue and history and kinda think it’s more of a culture war thing then anything about their racism since the north back in those days was already pushing for more centralized government and planned society because they were
a)culturally descended from religious weirdos / Proto fascists like the puritans and
b)the north needed more planning and control to go with their industrialism and the south didn’t fit well with that
The north was just as pro segregation and racism vs American blacks when they got enough to see them as a problem after the great migration.
Here’s a 50 year retrospective on Boston bussing. There were plenty of protests against it from northern whites. You can find the news footage of the day with northern urban whites being just as upset by the issue it’s just that for most of their history they didn’t have enough blacks to be racist against so they had to get by being mean to the Irish ,lol. 🙂
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5jlBb2Pj8pQ&pp=ygUcTm9ydGggYnVzc2luZyBibGFja2EgcHJvdHNzdA%3D%3D
I was reading “Albion’s Seed” and it’s kinda interesting that the civil war was basically a do over of the English Civil war by essentially the same groups as fought it in ye olde country. It’s always kinda insteresting to see how history is kinda a flat circle that repeats or at least rhymes
No, it’s real.
Real, IRL people.
It’s specifically against Alabama and Mississippi.
In-Real-Life people who don’t live in Alabama or Mississippi, avoid Alabama and Mississippi. There’s a fear of even passing through those states.
It’s a practical fear, though. They were famous for sundown towns and lynching people.
I (basically) lived in Nashville for five years, and there were people in their 70s and 80s who had never been to Birmingham, because they were afraid to travel south over the Alabama border. These were white people.
It’s kind of like how some white people who live in Los Angeles refuse to drive through Compton and Watts. Even to this day. Because of the riots, gangs, and urban legends of white people getting murdered after sunset. It’s part of the culture.
Bird
That’s interesting – I’ve been to to those places but not spent much time there. Thanks for the info.
TBF the idea of fearing lynching is kinda hilarious to my warped sense of humor – even back in the day you had to do some kinda crime to get Lynched for the most part.
we have a Hispanic lady friend who broke up with her boyfriend from fly over country because she went thru his area by cat and people in the gas station store stared at her. Lol, it’s not like they were gonna lynch her but she clearly didn’t belong there, what with her being very clearly Californian liberal.
They havr actual Mexicans and such around there as workers so I don’t think race was the thing.
Thatbsaid, there are plenty of places where some people don’t belong – your example of the ghetto being one.
Sure whites can move there but plenty of black areas don’t like whites moving in and gentrification pricing them out of the property market. I can’t imagine it ending well.
I knew a guy who loved Wales (UK) but said that the people there literally only spoke Welsh when English people were around. Lolol. Now I think if it they had a spate of English owned second houses getting burned down back in the 80s but Welsh nationalists.
TBH lynching was basically community justice for the most part- iirc the last guy Lynched around where I used to live was a black dude caught raping a little girl and killed pretty much on the spot.
I’m actually all for lynching pedos and murderrrs TBH. a story that would make a wonderful movie Is the Santa Claus bank robbery which ended with a lynching
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santa_Claus_Bank_Robbery
I think we’re sliding sideways on Corbett’s initial topic.
But…maybe some incidents of lynching were justified.
My problem with the whole vigilante justice thing are examples like the death of Emmett Till, a 14-year-old black teenager that a white woman accused of whistling at her. A mob beat him to death.
Which is crazy.
An insane overreaction.
And the murderers were acquitted. That happened in Mississippi.
That was just one of the most famous cases of the brutality of the south.
White people used to hold picnics around lynching trees, take pictures, and sell post cards. “They’re selling postcards of the hanging,” not just a Bob Dylan lyric.
The Billy Holiday song “Strange Fruit” was about lynchings.
I think the media of the time was exposing what was happening in the South, and people rejected that as normal. Which, I think was a good thing. But that bad press lingers.
Anyway. Sorry to get off topic.
Bird
The whole picnic thing was always a thing about hanging – even judicial ones. People we just much more “meh” about violence back then.
The UK started hanging people in private because of the danger public excitement caused….it’s kinda like people used to enjoy dog fighting and bear baiting- people were just more casual about such things in ye olden days.
I’m not suggesting that’s good or nobel to be as casual, but …..one day people in the future will be going WTF about things we do. 🙂 I kinda imagine that they will see pics of kids with cell phones and think we were monsters.
As to Emmett Till, I certainly don’t know enough to argue for or against his getting killed but I would say that
A) I distrust any media event that is used to push a legal or political point – for example “the book of Matt” goes into how the Matt Sherpard murder was used as an example of homophobic hate crime when it was actually a Meth issue between drug dealing scumbags
https://www.npr.org/2013/10/06/226438148/book-of-matt-the-real-motive-behind-an-infamous-murder
B) his dad was executed for rape by the US army …. Now I don’t say that makes HIM automaticly guilty but it’s kinda weird.
The story is totally skunked by media and politics to the point that I can’t get emotional about it because it’s more of a Media event then a Historical event which (considering that a real human being died) is very sad.
His dad’s wikipedia page.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_Till
Here it is….archive footage from the time. Boston bussing protesters
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3qlylxu7wvc&pp=ygUXQmlzdG9uIHByb3Rlc3RzIGJ1c3Npbmc%3D
Ha…found the clip
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JE9uBl8PO5k&pp=0gcJCU8Co7VqN5tD
Lisa Simpson as a southern Mama
This one hits home for me. If such a thing exists, I am a natural born grammar-lover. I won’t use the word ‘nazi’ because I very, very rarely correct someone for their less-than-appropriate use of language.
Right here I’ll say that text-speak annoys me to no end, for example. Here, I feel as if I’m witnessing the utter destruction of verbal expression itself. I’m put in mind of George Orwell’s ‘Newspeak.’ Ur getting my meaning?
The less aware that people are of proper use of language, the less capable they are of expressing themselves. Allowing for this person’s anonymity, I give you a real world example of the inability of people to express themselves coherently.
This person messaged me because she seemed to have recalled me from my early school days. I had no recollection of the woman. When inquiring of me, she wrote the following:
“𝘐 𝘳𝘦𝘮𝘦𝘮𝘣𝘦𝘳, 𝘐 𝘥𝘰𝘯’𝘵 𝘬𝘯𝘰𝘸 𝘪𝘧 𝘪𝘵’𝘴 𝘈𝘣𝘳𝘢𝘩𝘢𝘮 𝘓𝘪𝘯𝘤𝘰𝘭𝘯 𝘰𝘯 𝘮𝘦 𝘮𝘰𝘳𝘦 𝘧𝘪𝘳𝘴𝘵 𝘭𝘰𝘰𝘬 𝘪𝘯 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘎𝘢𝘳𝘥𝘦𝘯 𝘴𝘪𝘯𝘨𝘪𝘯𝘨 𝘢 𝘴𝘰𝘯𝘨 𝘴𝘰 𝘢 𝘭𝘪𝘵𝘵𝘭𝘦 𝘣𝘰𝘺 𝘸𝘩𝘦𝘳𝘦 𝘵𝘢𝘭𝘦𝘴 𝘤𝘰𝘶𝘭𝘥 𝘤𝘰𝘮𝘦 𝘵𝘳𝘶𝘦 𝘵𝘩𝘦𝘺 𝘤𝘢𝘯 𝘩𝘢𝘱𝘱𝘦𝘯 𝘵𝘰 𝘺𝘰𝘶 𝘪𝘧 𝘺𝘰𝘶’𝘳𝘦 𝘺𝘰𝘶𝘯𝘨 𝘢𝘵 𝘩𝘦𝘢𝘳𝘵 𝘤𝘰𝘶𝘭𝘥 𝘵𝘩𝘢𝘵 𝘩𝘢𝘷𝘦 𝘣𝘦𝘦𝘯 𝘺𝘰𝘶?”
I have a rough idea of what she was attempting to communicate. The only response I could muster up was, “I’m not sure I recall that.”
The dumbing down of language is a problematic affair. My own experience of attempting to communicate clearly and precisely has led me to feel that my mind itself has been refined and clarified because of my desire to enunciate in true clarity.
Being a musician, I feel similarly regarding the rules of music. The laws of music are, to my mind, akin to the laws of gravity.
When late 20th Century composers began questioning consonance versus dissonance, the resultant music was like a secret language in which only the most elite of musicologists could ‘understand.’
Never in history has atonal music, (bad grammar music, to extend the analogy), become so popular that people clamored to hear more and more of it. Music inevitably defaulted back to tonally palpable experience. This has been witnessed in the Classical realm, (Arnold Schoenberg); to Jazz music, (Ornette Coleman), to Rock & Roll, (The Beatles, ‘Revolution 9.’)
Not long after the atonal revolution, the desire for truly tonal music came back…and with a vengeance!
I suppose my bottom line is that I feel that understanding and putting to use the rules of grammar not only helps one to express themselves fully, but also these rules help to refine a person’s mind. To drive a car without ‘the rules of the road’ can only be done in a place like Baja, California. But if you want to drive in the city, you’d damned well need to follow the rules or disaster may well ensue.
Fellow musician here. Interesting points… But there are other dimensions, as well. Like the creation of new languages and dialects. It is a balance. Sometimes efficiency demands standardization, as in tools and fastener production. Also CD players and discs, as well as computer languages, etc. In other cases, it is more efficient to create an ad hoc tool or phrase.
I will address this more fully, further down in the comments.
Language is the glue of tribes and nations making directions, recipes, documents, agreements, oral history, and in general, all social intercourse between folks clear and meaningful.
My lead guitarist years ago sent me a postcard while on vacation. It said:
>>Forge simple words that children can understand.>>
I can find no justification to be forced to accept others re-manufacturing of a so perfect way of communicating. Not for genders, races, immigrants, pop culture influencers or anything else.
No Ebonics, text talk, or any other bastardization of our beautiful language.
As a man who has penned books and screenplays and hundreds of songs the ugliness of today’s language is a sad thing to me. Pop speak is nonsense. The verbalizing of nouns like lunch, grow, or stuff like existential threat, literally, agency, overton window, etc. or the clipping of words…tats, apps, or text shorthand/chat abbreviations like LOL, BTW, etc. all pretty embarrassing watching people mouth or write those words.
In my opinion, that usage reflects the laziness of our fast food this and that society. Like it is sooo difficult or time consuming to use an extra syllable or two??
– – – – – – – – – – – – – – –
My 8th grade English teacher, Mrs. Lillybach had us memorize little things over the year.
This, from Hamlet’s speech to the players in Act 3, Scene 2
“Speak the speech, I pray you, as I pronounced it to you,
trippingly on the tongue: but if you mouth it,
as many of your players do,
I had as lief the town-crier spoke my lines.”
– – – – – – – – – – – – – – –
Something to think about:
* U.S. average PIAAC literacy score (2023): 258 (down from 271 in 2017).
* Literacy scores are on a scale from 0 to 500 in six levels measuring ability to understand, use, and engage with written texts.
Level 1: 0–225 — very limited literacy (can do only simple reading tasks).
Level 1: 226–275 — can read short texts and locate one piece of information.
– – – – – – – – – – – – – – –
GONNA BE SOME HARD TIMES (Politics)
https://old.bitchute.com/video/MHeQZ0oHjAHj/
Your exasperation with the little folk is telling, James.
Great topic. As a non-native English speaker I definitely feel a little inferior in my linguistic abilities when in the company of highly educated and eloquent Brits. There is something to be said for being able to speak a language beautifully. My native language is one of the simplest languages in the world apparently, therefore making it very difficult to learn more complex languages (thankfully I was exposed to English at least from a very young age).
The other side of the coin is this – in school I studied Latin and have otherwise been loosely interested in ancient languages, the origin of languages etc. Considering how my own language developed (simplified Dutch) and knowing the complexities of the Latin language, and what I’ve otherwise read about ancient Sumerian etc., I have concluded that language has become simplified over time rather than more complex. Therefore I don’t believe the section in the middle video that talks about “run” and languages developing bottom-up.
I watched the film Idiocracy a few years ago where monosyllabic slang has become the universal language (at some point in the future) and I literally felt more stupid after watching the film, and so I think it serves from a brain development perspective to maintain good language structure.
However, totally degree with the gist of this video.
Also – if you haven’t seen it yet, this one is gold: https://youtu.be/Zf_125ApDvw?si=sWIyQYOHt7mbjHCa. However, not sure I want English to “deteriorate” to this permanently!
Great link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zf_125ApDvw
Haha that was good
clac, Thanks so much for this video and your comment. Hanky drew me to watch it.
Author of video:
https://www.youtube.com/@xiaomanyc
I’m Xiaoma, a polyglot who has studied dozens of languages. Until the age of 18 I grew up speaking exclusively English, and then I got the chance to learn Mandarin and live in Beijing for a year where I fell in love with Chinese food, language, and culture. This expanded my appetite to learn about cultures, foods, and languages from all around the world and now I share this passion with all of you!
Video title: (link to video above)
Professor Shocks High School by Speaking Gen Z Slang
Description
I was invited by Westtown School to give a speech—as a language expert—about the importance of learning languages, in front of a full auditorium of high school and middle school students. But instead of just telling the students why language matters…I decided to show them.
So I spent weeks secretly mastering Gen Alpha slang and then delivered the entire speech in their own linguistic native tongue, as a lighthearted prank but also to genuinely emphasize the importance of learning languages.
And to truly test my Gen Alpha fluency, I brought the dialect to a college graduation at Ohio State University—delivering a formal commencement speech in full professor robes to a room full of future teachers.
Now they know exactly what they’re up against!
Before I reached puberty I read constantly. I was forced to read “Tom Sawyer” and “Huckleberry Finn”. I was bored by the first, but loved the second. It was Huck’s language and what it expressed. I identified with it. I dreamt of escaping, drifting down a river on a raft, stopping at various little towns, each different.
In the early ’90s a new use of “feel” began. It replaced “think”, “believe”. I was disturbed. I knew some believed that if one “felt it” – one knew it – the stronger the feeling, the more reliable the knowledge. This was the beginning of replacing reason with emotion, using speech. Saying it doesn’t make it so! Neither does feeling it. Only a “well” reasoned argument does that! Following the rules of logic keeps thought well reasoned. Emotion is a physical response to a belief, proof that the belief is held, NOT that it is true. ONLY understanding of the proof, i.e., reasoning can do that.
Great point! That is a very relevant observation for today.
Ironically, these people simultaneously like the loose and malleable language while still favoring communism and Islamism, which are nothing but strict rules about how to think and act.
But, as you noted, logic and reason are not their strong points.
This was a wonderful presentation by James Corbett! It sure strikes a chord with me.
He could have titled it “How to Deal With Authorities – #SolutionsWatch”, but that title is already taken. https://corbettreport.com/how-to-deal-with-authorities/
Instead, while this is labeled “Episode 501 – The Fight For English”, the title of the YouTube video is Why is “deBt” spelled with a “B”???
If a person goes to the show-notes of this Episode 501, there is the link to that short article-video “The Anarchy of Language” where Corbett highlights the point: ”Because the real point of communication is communication—the miracle of communication.”
In the comment section of “The Anarchy of Language” is a link which relates to the YouTube title Why is “deBt” spelled with a “B”???
You need to be a signed-in Corbett Report Subscriber to access this really cool 10 minute video referenced in that comment section’s link.
The link to the subscriber video lies below.
In the video, James Corbett says: ”…There is one pronunciation that is a hill I will die on!!”
September 10, 2023
— SUBSCRIBER EXCLUSIVE VIDEO —
The Mirth, Mayhem and Minor Miracles of Mispronunciation Mishaps – Subscriber Exclusive #116
https://corbettreport.com/remember-what-happened-right-before-9-11-its-happening-again/
EXCERT
In this month’s subscriber exclusive video, James tackles the burning question on no one else’s mind: how many Englishes are there?…
James Corbett quote:
”Because the real point of communication is communication—the miracle of communication.”
I am reminded of…
Episode 499 – The Purpose Of a System Is What It Does
https://corbettreport.com/the-purpose-of-a-system-is-what-it-does/
POSIWID – “The purpose of a system is what it does”
Wait. *”‘:;!?_-(/*-+%{}][✓°^~`,…..proceed.
My Bacon is frying. My Bacon is crisping*
Come into the American cave and tell us what is it like on the outside. You know how it’s going to end?
Maybe , just maybe the transfer of matter and energy that make up the ” government need to exist” will transform it completely out of existence ; and language will be the catalyst . ? It would defy all the conservation of matter and energy rules . Now whose cave will be the one that the spontaneous ordered, anarchists reporter, the witness, the messenger escape from ? Denying the rules of the material universe .
The Dutch, the UAE, Israeli, the Ethiopian, Chinese or pick one from the august body of the U.N.. Who will break the glass ceiling ?
It will probably take a higher power than just rUn .One language one God ? , my Bacon is Cooked.*
By default, I’m uneducated. I live in the south.
[REFERENCE – Duck comment regarding Lisa Simpson.]
corbettreport.com/the-fight-for-english/#comment-186848
This translates to: “me often using a dictionary to look up words.” That’s unfortunate ‘cuz I have an allergy to looking up definitions. And just about every Corbett Report episode or article, my allergies kick-in sumthin’ terrible. Just when my momentum is at a good gate, Corbett says a big word…a gawl-dang ‘big word’. Then, I have to pause and refer to the online dictionaries. I don’t know big words. It is God’s wrath and my sin for living in the south.
Below is one of the definitions I looked up today…
22:45 mark QUEUED video “Episode 501 – The Fight For English”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Ht_Mi-6lJo&t=1365s
petard
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/petard
1: a case containing an explosive to break down a door or gate or breach a wall
2: a firework that explodes with a loud report
Where does the phrase hoist with one’s own petard come from?
Aside from historical references to siege warfare, and occasional contemporary references to fireworks, petard is almost always encountered in variations of the phrase “hoist with one’s own petard,” meaning “victimized or hurt by one’s own scheme.”
The phrase comes from William Shakespeare’s Hamlet: “For ’tis the sport to have the enginer / Hoist with his own petar.”
Hoist in this case is the past participle of the verb hoise, meaning “to lift or raise,” and petar(d) refers to an explosive device used in siege warfare.
Hamlet uses the example of the engineer (the person who sets the explosive device) being blown into the air by his own device as a metaphor for those who schemed against him being undone by their own schemes.
The phrase has endured, even if its literal meaning has largely been forgotten.
FART
[Living in the south, we like to making fart jokes. And just the word makes us laugh.]
Etymology of petard
Middle French, from peter to break wind, from pet expulsion of intestinal gas, from Latin peditum, from neuter of peditus, past participle of pedere to break wind; akin to Greek bdein to break wind
“Pedere” – That made me laugh.
Homie,
You are a riot.
As most know in Oklahoma the wind most always blows from the southwest of Texico to the northeast of Oklahoma.
It has an distinctive odor. Now I know why and where it comes from.
Ruffling the sheets, breaking wind, cutting the cheese, projectile air bombs, Bonaparte’s Retreat, Texas bugle blast, beans on the march, Captain Petards , Gone in the wind, ode de horror and spinktar says what?… All and more can be found in the book of words.
Texico has its own dictionary and encyclopedia of words, from which the term ” there she blows ” has its own special meaning in Oklahoma. No wonder those outsized, oversized big world words befuddle Texicans. Rare yes, but there are bigger things outside Texas.
Thanks Tex, we are now up to speed and pray someday the prevailing winds may change… May all your gastric downdrafts that petard up all those guys and gals dresses stay where they are born . Know that I’m not advocating building a wall. It would never be tall enough to contain the tale pipe perfume Texico produces.
GBW,
That is a great write-up!
I’m very impressed with the quantity of synonyms for ‘farts.’
Did you learn some of those synonyms from the Tulsa TV weather-girl when she was giving a “southerly-wind weather alert”?
I’m so glad that you described the lowdown of things.
We’re frugal.
We in Texas like to save our gas until the winds favor the northeast.
But we also offer Canned Texas Air.
https://www.amazon.sg/Air-Texas-Homesickness-Nostalgia-Collectible/dp/B09RLY1N6B
OTOH
There are several facets to this issue concerning clarity, efficiency, authority, freedom, identity, and continuity.
The first comment, quite appropriately, invoked visions of the story of Babel.
Going a little deeper, we can question if breaking apart a monolithic order is necessarily bad. Was the story just a useful tool for reinforcing authoritarian control through uniform language?
On the other hand, the need for continuity and standardization is obvious, at least in other realms. Our wrenches and nuts need to match, as well as our electronic devices and power sources. As has been noted above, language is the glue that forms a tribe, etc. This is a major point.
When a large faction speaks Ebonics, or Spanish, or whatever, that is not a huge deal for the survival of a nation, IF they also fluently speak the majority and historical language in appropriate circumstances.
Then the deeper question of whether the nation should stay undivided arises. These days those that hate our country and culture would rather try to change everything than move or separate. Is it because they want all the wealth and benefits accumulated while destroying that goose that layed the golden egg? They want absolute freedom (to parrot propaganda and perverts) while avoiding all the responsibility that freedom entails.
I wish that it was so clear, which changes are bottom up, and which are being supported and driven by powerful media, etc. I will now raise the specter of changing basic definitions, that only confuse things. Yes, it is time that we mention men, women, pregnancy, etc. as words that suddenly have conflicting meanings. Did you frown at my pronoun clown? These propositions are not mere prepositions. These catastrophes are worse than the apostrophes. The hubris of the rainbow folk to try and change our language from the top down is something I can’t swallow.
Yes James, this is episode addresses a very vital issue, but it raises as many questions as it answers.
Hankey
“……wish that it was so clear, which changes are bottom up, and which are being supported and driven by powerful media, etc. ……”
That is very easy TBH. ALL of it is imposed.
ALL social change is led by an active minority who impose their morals and values upon the masses.
Christian kings told their subjects to worship God and in a generation or two they internalized it. These days it’s just that it’s faster because the masses are way more programmable with whatever nut fkery the people who have power want to tell them to think. It used to take generations but now it takes less then a decade to re program the culture. That’s why the modern mind is often like a worn out video tape with static and hissing.
Like I read in the Populist delusion and the sequel “culture flows from law”…..
Look at how a decade or so ago there were plenty of US people who thought gay marriage was evil where as TODAY even most “conservative” types are fine with it….on that subject there were lots of people who wanted to stick the homos in jail but such people are hard to find these days.
De segregation was very unpopular with the actual voters, in fact being imposed by force, but try and find anyone who is in favor of Jim Crow these days.
The conservative types will always try to conserve what exists NOW, be that gay rights or civil rights, or woke race communism or a monarchy or theocracy, and when it’s changed they will flip to support the new order…..those wokies going on about this or that are just the church gossip ladies who flipped over when power shifted. If a homophobic racist government made new Nazi laws these people should flip into being literal Nazis in a short while.
Even the fall of the Soviet Union happened from the TOP down as the local elites decided to go their own way when the time looked right.
All modern culture and modern moral values are stenciled into the minds of the masses.
Well said. However, the more trivial aspects of language, such as the evolution of text-speak of high schoolers and also Ebonics, seem to be more bottom up. I agree with your observations, but they can’t control everything. If you focus strictly on linguistic evolution, it is not all top down.
Although they try. The pronoun police in England, Canada, Australia, and Europe are doing their best to influence that aspect of language with absurd authoritarianism. Very liberal, indeed!😃 The successful banning of the word negro and the N-word is another example of conscious manipulation of language by media and government. Only Chris Rock and Dave Chappelle are exempt.🤩 Also banning retarded, etc., are not organic, bottom-up changes. The redefinition of the words racism and racist is also controlled and policed.
Language is important, which the demagogues, politicos, and control freaks recognize, as well as James Corbett. And you and I.
Eggcorns
My daughter used to say, “Let’s have a murdercycle race. Ready, Cassette, Go!”
That was cute when she was 2 or 3, but she didn’t keep it up for years. And it certainly was never imposed on anyone else (outside of a comedy club). The Pronoun Clowns could learn something from the two year old that grew up…
I love that Matilda movie nazi teacher lady you chose for the image James and what a great episode.
I have come to engage in some anarchy of language activities and invite us to question the real purpose of a specific English word that essentially designates many species as the “Untermensch” of the realm of photosynthetic beings.
This designation I refer to is for those reviled plants called “weeds” that defy some human’s control freak monoculture tenancies.
My question is why did most (if not all) place based animistic (indigenous) cultures here and elsewhere have no such designation in their language?
And why are there 114 plant names in the English language containing the word “weed” in the common name (with many of those plants being important food and medicine crops for indigenous pre-colonial cultures, and/or providing for pollinators, protecting soil and cleaning water) ?
Is the word “weed” (no not the Bob Marley variety) designed to enforce a sort of class based apartheid / fascism onto the realm of plants? And why do we continue to re-enforce this botanical fascism with our use of the English language to refer to such plants?
For additional context and info, read:
https://substack.com/@gavinmounsey/note/c-256442720
These questions shall also be the focus of my poll of the month.
https://youtu.be/7Ht_Mi-6lJo&t=356 : “But that’s a very heady philosophical concept to think about, so I’ll leave that to Stu for a little while.”
Oh, really? So how’s Stu going to help with the topic at hand if I may ask? And is he done with it now, since 2015??
Sorry, I couldn’t resist… XD
Anyway, regardless of where a preposition should land in a sentence, what’s truly fascinating about all the different languages as systems is how they shape the thought process of those who use them, as well as have an impact on the mentality and values of a people.
I’m definitely the third type, i didn’t get the joke
Great video James
I studied “English in the World” at University. The module included etymology of language, accents and words in the United Kingdom. It was my favourite area of study and subsequently I received excellent marks.
An area that I found interesting was the theory of “Translanguaging”. This is a theory that developed with the growth of English as a “global language” and mass migration. The theory focused on the development of English under certain social conditions. SMS language use, email language use, in fact, digital language use as a means of communication in migrant communities, and its increasing use in native communities. Examples are @ , LMAO, CU, etc etc etc. There was also examples of translanguaging being used in schools as the growing number of immigrant children with diverse language backgrounds and tongues needed support in understanding.
My opinion is this. If a written message in understood then it has done no harm, right? However, we must guard against English being degraded to such a degree that it looses its magic as language, its beauty, class, its ability to bring images alive in your head with nothing but Enlgish words. That is precious and needs to be included in education.l
I watch this video and it keeps going in and out of focus, anyone else have this problem? it is very distracting.
Mr Corbett. On another subject, please can you talk about this?: WBAN (Wirelessbodyareanetwork), the tech is already inside everyone and the bio digital convergence has already happened. Check Sabrina wallace’s work, psinergy channel on rumble and also nonvaxer420 on rumble (Very well sourced). Since you love show notes and documentation, you will have all the proof right there, patents, official documents, legislation, the tech is already up and rolling since years, inside of everyone. If you want a more deep view under your skin check Maria Crislers microscope work analyzing human Blood and showing you the tech inside of EVEN unvaccinated people. Take care man.
I’m a big fan of James Corbett, and I put my money where my mouth is: I’ve been giving him a small tip every month for the last 18 years or so. I shall be eternally grateful for his 2009 article on the forthcoming WHO dictatorship, which I read in 2011, and which resulted in me moving to a warm climate and developing a small-holding.
However! I have to take issue with him on this. I would have expected better from him, from a linguist, a man of letters – albeit an American one. (Yesss I know he was from Canada – this is on the American continent).
Yes, we all know that languages develop and grow and change. We all appreciate creativity.
But many changes derive from mistakes. Those mistakes are on a spectrum from
Trivial
through
Mildly annoying
to
Destructive.
It’s the destructive changes that matter. I’ll get to them shortly.
1 TRIVIAL
All his example were from the Trivial end. They were essentially straw man arguments.
“To boldly go …” I remember that the first time I came across this, aged about 8, I found it funny (not annoying) as it was the first time I had heard a split infinitive.
Finishing a sentence with a preposition? Nobody cares.
Starting a sentence with a conjunction? Nobody cares.
The fact is (generally speaking of course) NOBODY CARES (much) about that sort of thing, even if they enjoy correcting others’ mistakes.
2. MILDLY ANNOYING
Language is for conveying meaning, and it helps to be able to do it CLEARLY. That can be important in some circumstances.
People often hear obscur-ish phrases and misunderstand them. Then they mis-apply them to some common thing they want to say.
E.g. To “beg the question” means (/meant) to AVOID the question. But people often want to say “that raises the question …” and they mis-employ that phrase that they have some familiarity with! [final preposition]!
They’ve heard people talking about “open questions”; they then employ this turn of phrase they’ve heard when they mean an “unanswered question”. Originally though the meaning was more subtle – an open question was one which avoids leading, avoids restricting the choice of answer, or hinting towards an answer. (E.g. “what did you do then?” as opposed to “were you furious?”).
Again, these examples are not particularly important. The intended meaning is often clear from the context or background of the speaker; but often it becomes necessary to ask which was meant.
This sort of mistake is especially common in English, as, uniquely at the moment, it has become the lingua franca: so MOST of the speakers of the language do not do so as their first language! In the US and Canada it may be your first language, but you are surrounded by people using it as a second language.
This results not only in many more mistakes, but in simplification of the language. I’m sure that many native Spanish speakers, e.g., can say what they want in a more nuanced and accurate way in their own language.
…